Tried to convince your seller of accepting monthly payments more times than your FO has done a go-around?
Well, some people just like to pay Uncle Sam, so do you give up?
No, because by involving a Note Buyer, the seller can get their lump sum and you can get your monthly payments.
How does this work and…how do I know a note buyer will…well, buy it?
My friend, Kevin Galang from The Note Nuggets Podcast will explain what a note buyer looks for in a note so you can have this silver bullet armed and ready.
Want to hear more?
Subscribe to Kevin’s NoteNuggets Podcast at:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/note-nuggets-podcast/id1515588629
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Hey, Pilot investors, how many of you have experienced this situation where you’re trying to educate the seller on how they can benefit tax-wise and savings-wise by receiving seller financing in a monthly installment payment, but instead, no, they say, “Cash only or nothing.” What do you do in this situation? Well, I’m going to share with you my secret weapon, a note buyer.
NOW, WHAT IS A NOTE BUYER?
A note buyer is basically a person who acts as a bank. They have the money in either their retirement account or savings that they are able to provide the seller, and in exchange, the income you make from the tenants in your property will now pay the note holder. Now I’ve brought on professional note buyer, Kevin Galang, from the Note Nuggets podcast, to explain to us exactly how a note buyer works, how they can fit into our situation, and what constitutes a marketable note so they can get involved in our deal so that we can all make money.
Mike Marino:
All right, captains. Thanks for joining us today. I’ve got my secret weapon note investor, Kevin Galang from his note nuggets podcast to tell us what a note investor’s looking for when they’re purchasing a note to help us get that creative financing, the seller funding saying more importantly, the installment payments. So we don’t. So now we can work with the seller who says they only want cash. So Kevin, thanks so much for joining us today.
Kevin Galang:
Thank you so much. I am happy to be here and I’m looking forward to adding as much value as I can to your listeners.
Mike Marino:
Fantastic. So I’ve got a list of questions for you based on what I’ve learned, but I’m curious about, and also questions that my airline pilots, my investors are also curious about, because this is new to most people. Most people are, as you know, used to go to a bank and getting a mortgage. They didn’t understand that they can go to people like you for the same, where we get a note in the mortgage or deed of trust. If that’s your state, and now we can pay installment payments from the rental income that we’re getting exactly tremendously powerful. So Kevin, you know, if I’m going to you in seeing if this note would be marketable to yourself and your investors. So when I come to you with this seller finance note to sell you, so…
What minimum interest rate and discount are you (note buyer) looking for?
Kevin Galang:
That’s a fantastic question. And I love that you said discount because it’s kind of this unwritten rule where you’re always going to buy a note at a discount. That’s not to say that you couldn’t sell a note for UPB or 100% of whatever the balances somebody could buy it, but generally speaking, most people won’t buy it at a hundred percent of what’s owed. There are a lot of reasons for that, but one of the main reasons is the difference between the interest rate and the yield. So the interest rate on the note will be what the borrower, the premium they’re paying to have that a financing opportunity, right? And the seller finance note, the average, and I learned this from another investor over thousands of notes, they said that the average was four to 5%. You would think it would be eight to nine or something along those lines.
Kevin Galang:
But he said, that’s not the case. They were surprised when they found out that information too. So a four to 5% interest rate, right? That’s what the borrower is expecting to pay each month. That’s what their interest is going to be well as an investor, myself or my investors that I’m working with four to 5%. Isn’t exciting to me. So we want to try, I, I, for me, the magic spot with my investors is that I try to get around eight to 12% yield. So the yield is what you will get when you offer that discount up. That’s the return, the future looking return that you’ll get on your money by buying it at a discount. So that is, it’s hard to give an exact number, but that’s how I approach it. So if the seller finance note is 4%, I’m going to offer up a greater discount so that I can basically force that yield.
Kevin Galang:
It’s almost like forcing appreciation if you will. So when that, because now I’m paying a discounted rate for that same 4% interest rate, but because I’m buying it at a discount that four can turn into eight. So it’s hard for, to give you an exact number, but that’s how L I, I will approach it. And I’ll look at the numbers. I’ll even show the investor, Hey, this is why I’m offering you this account, because I’m looking to get this yield. And some, you know, most of the time, like, okay, I understand that. That seems to be a common theme with the investors that I’ve worked with in notes. So,
Mike Marino:
Wow. So you’re looking at the yield eight to 12% based on both the interest rate and the discount.
Kevin Galang:
Exactly. Yeah. It’s going to be a combination of those two to get to that position. Wow.
Mike Marino:
Now I want to add to our viewers here. So why would we be paying a 12% when we can go to Wells Fargo and get, you know, three, four or 5% because Kevin is offering a service. So basically now with Kevin, we can close early. Now we’re cash buyers. So now we can command a huge discount with the seller. Our closing costs are significantly less. Most people don’t realize that when they go to a bank, they’re paying 4%. They just signed on the dotted line as far as, okay, here’s our initiation, origination fee and financing fee, all these fees up front. People don’t realize that that is also that’s part of the profit going to the bank. So now we don’t have any of that. So when you compare working with a note investor in the bank, it’s apples and oranges. So you have to look at the total expense of both and with the edit discount that we can get as cash buyers and closing much sooner working with a note investor, like Kevin is a huge advantage that most people don’t understand or realize. So Kevin, thanks for bringing that up because I never thought about both looking at the full yield with the discount, right, right. Over the term of the note. Yeah.
Kevin Galang:
And if you work, to add to your point, when you work with an investor versus a Wells Fargo, there’s more room for negotiation, right? Maybe you can come to terms in a different way. Maybe you, uh, cross-collateralized to make that 6%. Let’s say that that’s what you negotiate with me worth it. Cross-collateralized maybe bringing another opportunity and to make my, my position feel more secure for myself and my investors, Wells Fargo or whatever bank chances are, they’re going to be like, that’s not gonna happen. We don’t care about that. But when you work with the private investor, there’s a lot more room for that. And if you’re a, an investor that is open to doing something like a seller finance, you’re open to negotiating already, right? If you’ve convinced the seller of a property to take seller carryback, then you’ve got the power of the skillset to work with an investor like myself, to figure out a middle ground and create a win-win for everybody.
Mike Marino:
That’s exactly right. You know, when we work with Kevin, Kevin’s a human, he’s not this mega corporation of Wells Fargo that has their rules. And they’ve got to ask the different bureaucratic layers for any loan modifications. You just give Kevin a call and say, Hey, because of what’s been going on the past, uh, you know, a year now I’m able to pay you this instead, can we extend the terms or whatever? So we have that flexibility. And like Kevin said, when you work with a real person, you have that flexibility. Now you can preserve your investment and your cashflow, and also make Kevin and his investors much. So it’s huge. In fact, it’s going to the old way of how we used to buy homes. Yeah. That’s very true. Traditional way. So Kevin, so when I approached you with the note, I’m going to be paying you every month or whatever the terms are. And just like, if I will go to Wells Fargo or bank of America, they want to check my credit worthiness. So as far as a note investor,
How would you determine ones creditworthiness? And is there a minimum credit score or anything that you look for?
Kevin Galang:
Good question for me when it comes to credit worthiness, I’m not saying that I have to have a particular credit number to do business with somebody because you can have the highest credit in the world and the dude who can still hit the fan and things can go wrong. Ideally, what I would like to have is some type of payment, history, maybe deals you’ve done in the past. Something like that to showcase that you are that type of person that’s going to continuously pay. I like seeing that those numbers cause that’s objective and it’s, uh, I feel more comfortable predicting the future with that. Given history. Another thing that I think about is, uh, the credit history is, is great. It gives you an idea of how well somebody is going to kind of manage their debt, but the value of the property. If we do a deal together, I want to know that I and my, and my investors are protected by the asset, by the property that we’re originating a note against, because I want you to succeed as an investor.
Kevin Galang:
And I will work with you and with the borrower, this goes for residential mortgages. I want them to succeed. That’s just the kind of person I am. However, if you aren’t going to succeed, if something happens, we can’t work something out. I’m still comfortable because myself and my investors we’re protected by the value of the property. So I really look at the asset to understand in a first position, how protected am I? How much equity is there. If there’s only, you know, five or 10% equity, it probably won’t do the deal because what room is there for me to make money? What room is there for me to protect my investors in a situation that goes wrong? So I try to look at the payment history if I can, and really focus on the value of the asset.
Mike Marino:
Gotcha. Yeah. That’s very interesting. Cause uh, you make a good point just by looking at a credit score. Doesn’t really give you the full story of my credit worthiness. But like you said, if I, if I show you bank statements that are paid on time, I paid early for past mortgages. That’s a better indication of, of how I perform. That’s a good point. Um, so a question from one of my captains is so as a note buyer, what if the note we negotiate with the seller has a balloon payment, is, does that affect anything as far as selling it to yourself or the investors
Kevin Galang:
Payments can make me a little nervous? The reason I say that is generally speaking, who has that money set aside for a balloon payment, whatever the case may be. And I’m assuming it’s going to be in the five, six figures of a balloon payment. There aren’t many people that just have that lying around. So when I see that I get a little bit more cautious and that’s when I come back to the property where if I’m confident that the value of the property is strong enough to where if the borrower isn’t able to make that balloon payment. And I have to go through the legal process of foreclosing and maybe some renovations that I could still make money. Then I may take that on knowing that there’s that risk, that, that balloon payment won’t be fulfilled. Uh, that’s the way I look at it. I’m not saying I wouldn’t do it, but really thinking about the value of the property and the reason I’m so adamant about that is that’s the worst case scenario that the borrower doesn’t pay, the investor that I’m working with, can’t pay for whatever reason life happens, right?
Kevin Galang:
That’s just the way of the way it is. What I be comfortable financially in the position to where if I take that property back and that’s the beauty of being an investor is you can take it back and you can decide what you want to do. Do you want to flip it? Do you want to rent it? Do you want to create another known seller, finance it, all of those things are powers of being a note investors. You have these exits, but it really depends on the value of the property. If you can’t make it work with that value of the property, then I wouldn’t look at the, uh, balloon payment on a note, but if there’s enough equity, I just might.
Mike Marino:
Wow. That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought about that. Hmm. So do you know and sorry, I didn’t know. Buyers want to see a down payment from the selling investor, which then will reduce the loan to value ratio.
Kevin Galang:
A down payment does help because for me it’s a, how much skin in the game, right? If you’ve got no skin in the game, what are you risking when you walk away? If you walk away from anything like, all right, whatever, I’ll just take the loss. But if you put, you know, for debt payment, it’s going to sting, it’s going to hurt. You want to find a way to work with the, uh, your lender. That’s my position on it. I think that that’s the case. Um, and when I see that, it, it, it tells me how willing they might be to work with me. Cause there would you really want to walk away from that money as an investor? And if you brought somebody else on, let’s say you have an investor to put the down payment up. Would you be willing to walk away knowing that you’re kind of like not disappointing, but you are messing up a deal for two different parties, the lender, but even the, the other lender where you had the relationship with to, uh, use other people’s money for the down payment. So there’s two different layers of people you have to consider if you walk away for something like that. So a down payment is definitely nice to see and would make me more calm.
Mike Marino:
Makes sense.
Are you looking for a specific percentage or it depends on the deal?
Kevin Galang:
It really depends on the deal. Um, know maybe 10% around there, something, something that’s enough for me to say, okay, I understand that. And it really does depend on the deal, right? Because generally, if you’re thinking about the, the home sellers or property sellers that will do seller financing, they all say, Oh, I just want all cash. I mean, you have to do some more digging, but do they really want $500,000 in cash? What are they going to do with that money? Right? That’s where you got to find out what, what the root problem is as to why they’re selling. Maybe they just want enough money to pay for grandkids college or pay for another property, whatever the case may be that would, that could serve as the down payment. And then they could take the installments there and then you’re forcing the equity and lowering the loan to value. So it really depends on the deal.
Mike Marino:
It’s a good point. That’s the fun part about negotiating with an open mind and you’re able to use these creative financing methods rather than just the traditional throw money at the deal. That’s fun. So on the other end of the spectrum, so let’s say an investor comes to you to sell a note and they don’t have the money to put down. So it’s a higher loan to value ratio. What would you look as far as compensation? So more of a discount, higher interest, what would you consider?
Kevin Galang:
Yeah, that’s a, those are all good points. Uh, that’s where the negotiation is going to come into play. Maybe we do a higher interest rate. Maybe we do, um, a greater discount or maybe we even do something like I was talking about earlier. We cross collateralize that way. I’m increasing the total value of the note in the event that I, you know, you aren’t able to pay. If you can’t afford a down payment, let’s say you got a rental here. That’s doing well. Well, maybe I’ll consider issuing a note where it’s, uh, associated with not only the property in question, but that rental property that you have that way myself and my investors are even more protected if you’re not able to offer a down payment. So that’s where the negotiation will come into play.
Mike Marino:
That’s a good point for our viewers. What he means by cross-collateralized is instead of a down payment. Well, what if you have two properties and your second property that you already own has that equity. Well, now you can use that equity to, like you said, says cross-collateralized and use that as the down payment. Is that correct?
Kevin Galang:
Yeah, exactly. Or I add that to the, to the overall note. So that way we have an understanding that if you are going to walk away or if you’re going to default, I’m the only one to take back that property. I will take the other property too. So if, if the numbers make sense for you and you’re comfortable doing that, then that could be, uh, another way to solve the problem of, Hey, I can’t afford the down payment this time. What else can we do here?
Mike Marino:
Yeah. And that’s an example of when two people, rather than a person and a corporation work together, we can use creative methods like that. Yeah.
Kevin Galang:
Yeah. I’m willing to bet that the bigger companies are not even really thinking about that and you can’t blame them. Right. That’s not their wheelhouse. So that’s another advantage of working with investors.
Mike Marino:
Exactly. It’s a tremendous advantage to, so my next question is, so are there certain States that you would like to buy from or certain States you would like to avoid buying notes?
Kevin Galang:
So if I’m buying a residential mortgage, I try to look for States where it’s, nonjudicial the difference between non-judicial and judicial is a judicial, foreclosure state is going to cost more. It’s going to take longer and you’re going to have to be because it, the reason it takes longer and customers, you have to go in front of a judge. And what we’re seeing right now with the foreclosure bands, the eviction bands, there were instances where judges were just kind of like, Nope, um, cannot continue with the ban, right? That’s a possibility. So you have to consider that as a holding cost. I don’t want to deal with that trouble. So nonjudicial is much cheaper. It’s faster for residential foreclosure. What’s interesting is to my understanding and somebody can correct me if I’m wrong. Uh, if you’re doing, if we’re doing a note between myself and you, Mike for a non-owner occupied, uh, note that we’re creating, it might be considered like a business to business loan. So you may not be subject to that same legal, um, nuances. I could be wrong. I am not an attorney. I’m gonna throw that out there. If that, if you run into that and you have specific questions in your area, please go to a local real estate attorney. But business to business transactions operate differently, uh, than residential mortgages. So something to consider.
Mike Marino:
Oh, that is interesting. Yeah. So to find out if your state is traditional and non-traditional, it’s an easy Google search, but Kevin correct me if I’m wrong, basically, if your state has a deed of trust state, it’s usually non-judicial, is that correct? Or from,
Kevin Galang:
Yes. And I think about like California is a deed of trust. Colorado’s a deed of trust. I believe. Uh, Texas is also deed of trust. And from that they’re a non-judicial foreclosure States. So where I’m focusing right now, I would say is Alabama Arkansas, um, Missouri, Mississippi, Tennessee, Texas. Uh, I want to look at Nevada too, cause I know people are moving from, you know, from California. Uh, Colorado is also nonjudicial so I might start poking around there too.
Mike Marino:
Excellent. Glad you’re on my team. Uh, here’s an interesting one. Most people are not very familiar with. So…
Can you describe a partial and how it would beneficial be beneficial for both the investor and for the notes?
Kevin Galang:
Partials are awesome. And there’s a, a misconception, uh, when we first think about note investing, when you create a note that is an asset, a note is an asset you can borrow against it, just like you would a rental property. It produces income like a rental property would too. Right? And with a note you’re entitled, when you buy a note or you become the lender, you’re entitled legally to whatever amount of monthly payments let’s, we’ll use 30 years. Just, just kind of the typical thing. When you originate that note, you are entitled for 30 years of monthly payments waiting 30 years to make your money can be a really long time for some people. And that’s totally understandable. So what you can do is you can sell off partial installments that are part of that 30 years, maybe it’s five years worth of payment, which would be 60 payments or it’s 10 years, which is 120 payments.
Kevin Galang:
You could sell off some of those for a, a fee, and then you could take that money to do something else with it. So you get your upfront capital, right? Let’s say it’s a hundred thousand dollars note for 30 years. You want to sell 10 years worth. So 120 payments and I’m throwing random numbers here. You sell it for 45,000 something along those lines. So you get $45,000 back from your initial 100,000, but you give up those 10 worth of payments, the investors happy because they get a nice yield on their money. They get the same advantages of being a lender. They don’t worry about maintenance, no tenant turnover, stuff like that. Um, and then once the 10 years are up, you then assume the position you were in. So you’re getting paid effectively twice. You get to premium on the front end with the partial. And then when that investor’s gone, you get that cashflow on the backend, which is going to be an interest on your money. And with that 45,000 that you got who’s to say, you couldn’t go buy another note or do something else with that, go buy a rental, right? There’s so many ways that you can do that with, uh, with notes. And I love partials for that very reason. You starting to get into like the creative aspect of notes and so cool.
Mike Marino:
Wow. I never thought about that. That’s interesting.
Kevin Galang:
Another thing you can do, uh, just to, to touch on this as we’re talking about getting creative from notes, as I mentioned, uh, you can borrow with notes. So they, I think they call it hypothecation. So you have, let’s say a portfolio of notes. Let’s say it’s worth $500,000. You can find somebody. I don’t know if it will be a bank like a corporation bank, but you maybe it’s an investor, right? Maybe you go to investor and say, Hey, I have this portfolio of $500,000 worth of notes. You show them the numbers, you show them what it’s worth. Maybe you take a loan out for, I don’t know, $350,000 that you can do with that, whatever you want. And they get a, an interest rate, but you’re creating a spread now. So let’s say your notes are on average, uh, generating an 8% yield for you. What if that investor wants 6% under 350,000 sounds reasonable. Right? So now you have that 2% spread on your money without having to give up or sell those existing assets because you now have that money because you’ve leveraged your notes.
Mike Marino:
Wow. Okay. Interesting. Yeah.
Kevin Galang:
There’s so many, like that’s what I love about it. You can get even, even creative with regards to note investing.
Mike Marino:
All right, Kevin, you know…
A lot of investors are confused about the difference between a note buyer and a hard money loan. And can you talk about the difference?
Kevin Galang:
So a hard money lender. So a note buyer, a hard money lender is still a note investor, right? Because you’re issuing a note, but generally speaking, it’s going to be used for a short term type of transaction. Maybe that is going to be a house slipper, right? That’s what house flippers do is when they use none of their own money, they’ll find an investor. They’ll say, Hey, we need to know we’ll probably pay some points at the beginning upfront fee that investor will, the hard money lender will issue the money for the fixed slip and everything that’s associated with it, uh, for it’s generally like a 12 year, 12 month type of situation. So it’s much faster. And it may not be that you get paid for 12 months. Then they complete the flip and six months all said and done, right? So you’re looking at it from that perspective of based on the asset.
Kevin Galang:
So it’s similar, very similar to a note investor. But for me, the hard money lender, if they assume the position of, Oh, my house flipper stopped paying, what are they going to do? Right. They take the asset back, but you either have to make money worth it. You have to complete that flip. So that sucks. Uh, I’m not experienced in that. So I generally wouldn’t do that. When I’m focused on note investing, it’s more of a longterm play, right? The monthly cashflow for the 10, 1530 year play. And that’s what I, that’s kind of how I deal any eight. The two is how quickly do they want their money back? Um, and hard money lending. I haven’t seen anything more than maybe even 18 months. Uh, I haven’t seen anything longer than that. So really thinking about the difference of the time, because they’re both focused on the, the asset as well. So there’s a lot of similarities. Uh, but the biggest differentiator is how quickly that the L the note investor wants to.
Mike Marino:
Gotcha. And I assume in both cases, you guys are hard money. It’s a secured loan from both. Yeah.
Kevin Galang:
Secured by the property. That’s undergoing the renovation of death.
Mike Marino:
Makes sense. So hard money who makes sense. It’s really, short-term, you’re going to flip it a lot of risk involved, but going to a, a note investor is more like the bank. We’re looking at longterm cashflow for you guys. Long-term monthly installment payments for the investor. Is that right?
Kevin Galang:
Exactly. Yeah. And that’s the value you make, the money. You make the, the numbers work. Rather, if the numbers work now, you don’t make the numbers work. If the numbers work from the calculation, then it’s kind of a win-win right. If you can get somebody like another investor who, you know, who has an IRA that wants to make some money, puts the down payment, you work with somebody like me to come in and fill in that other cash for the home home seller. Now you have two different parties you’re working with, but if the numbers make sense, you have no money into a deal and you get monthly cash.
Mike Marino:
Fantastic. Now, thanks so much, Kevin, you know, talking to you, educating everybody,
the more we understand about the industry, the more creative we can get, the more money you can get.
And the more the end properties you can get, because now you have a huge toolbox that you can work with the seller, no matter what the response is, you have a solution for them. So Kevin’s super interesting interview today. So if any of my guys want to talk to you about working with you, whether they’re selling or investing with you, how would they get in touch with you?
Kevin Galang:
So I created the note nuggets podcast because I was filling a need for myself. It was kind of a selfish thing. When I started note investing, I realized it’s a different asset then compared to like a rental house or an apartment complex, the real bricks and sticks. If you will, you can touch it. You can smell it, look at it. You can taste it, I guess, if you really want to, but I would recommend it. Uh, it just seems a bit more intuitive. But with note investing the idea of owning debt, the idea of being the bank is hard. It was hard for myself to kind of wrap my brain around. So I thought, okay, there’s gotta be other people that are in that same position. And there are a ton of different note investing podcasts out there. But one thing that really, uh, didn’t resonate well with me, if you will, was there were so complex, they got into the weeds.
Kevin Galang:
So I may be listened to a 45-minute episode and think, I think I understood one thing there. So I said, okay, let me just break down. Note investing into its simplest. That way each episode is 10 minutes less. Somebody walks away saying, Oh, now I understand what a note is or now I understand how I can make money as a note investor. So that’s why I created the note nuggets podcast. And if you want it to listen to that, all you have to do is go, go to note nuggets.com forward slash podcast. And if you want to send me an email asking me a question more than happy to do that for you, shoot me an email at, at Kevin and nuggets.com or book a time on my calendar, no nuggets.com forward slash contact. Those are all the ways that you can reach me.
Mike Marino:
Awesome. Thanks so much, Kevin, I’m a subscriber myself. I listen to you every week, Kevin, like he said, he makes what could be an extremely complicated business into simple terms. And he keeps his podcasts nice and short for those who don’t have much time or attention span. But if you’re really curious and want to hear more, he makes the entire interview available. So that flexibility and his education in simple terms is a tremendous education. And Kevin, of course, if any of my guys have more questions about notes, whether just general education or the sell to you of the best way is just to email you there. Kevin, that note
Kevin Galang:
Exactly that. Or if you want book a time on my calendar, more than happy to connect to just let me know where we you heard from me. Cause I don’t want to, I’m like, ah, who are you? So just let me know.
Mike Marino:
Fantastic. Thanks so much, Kevin, for increasing our financial education. So we’re able to make money for ourselves by bringing other people like yourself into the deal, your investors. So now everybody can profit. So thanks so much, Kevin. Thanks, Mike. I really appreciate it.